✨ Magical Mindset Podcast: Radical Self-Acceptance

Discovering Self-Acceptance: Navigating Identity and Societal Expectations

[00:00:00] Introduction to Radical Authenticity

Macarena: Are you wasting your energy pretending? to be someone you're not? That will have repercussions. Authenticity is a hot topic, but how do we access that? How do we get to a point of radical self-acceptance and radical self-expression?

Intro: Welcome to Magical Mindset with Macarena Luz Bianchi, where we explore the magic of mindset, gratitude, and purposeful living. I'm your host, Macarena, and I'm thrilled to have you join me on this journey of wonder, wellness, and wisdom. You can find the episode show notes, your free magical mindset blueprint, and more at xpres.me/podcast. And here's the show.

[00:00:47] Meet Malorie Cooper: Author and Coach

Macarena: On today's show, Malorie Cooper, the science fiction author and book marketing coach is with us. Malorie is a New York Times best-selling science fiction author of over 100 books. In addition, she also coaches authors on advertising and marketing for their works.

Welcome, Malorie. I am so glad you're here.

Malorie: Thanks for having me. I've been looking forward to this.

Macarena: Thanks. And the theme of this show is We're going to call it a radical authenticity, radical self-acceptance.

Malorie: I'm here for it.

Macarena: I think it's an interesting topic.

[00:01:22] The Challenge of Being Yourself

Macarena: In so many ways people think " Oh, just be yourself." But why do you think that is so challenging?

Malorie: I honestly think that not a lot of people know Who that is when they hear just be yourself. From a very young age, we learn to fit in, we learn to " oh, people expect this behavior of me. I have to behave this way. I go to my grandma's house. I can't say these words.

We can't talk about these subjects I have to behave this way. "They call it the internal editor. Where you start editing who you are based on who you're around. I think a lot of people get to a point where they actually don't even really know who they are anymore.

 If they had no judgment and no fear of shame or lack of acceptance, what would they do? And I bet you a lot of people can't even imagine what that would be. I think that's why when people hear be myself, they're like, what's the context? How do I be myself? Without thinking about the context first of where I am and who I'm with.

[00:02:11] Navigating Identity and Self-Discovery

Macarena: In my coaching work, we talk a lot about archetypes. And I really believe as infinite beings, we relate to this in stories. We understand what a doctor is or what a boss is. So we understand these archetypes. We understand if I say act like a pirate, we all know what that means.

So in one sense, we have access to all of that. With business, I like to think of it as hats. Sometimes I have my writer hat on, sometimes I have my marketing hat on. We have to switch these things from thing to thing. And I think some of that is obviously healthy and useful.

Malorie: And I'm wondering, for you as a kid, when did you first realize showing up differently? Like you said, grandma's house. Yeah, when you're in grandma's house, you use this particular language versus when you're home. I can barely remember a time without it. I have to be around age five or so though. You start going to school and you start being expected to understand that you have to behave differently. Although I'm sure it was probably even before that, because I grew up a very conservative evangelical background. So everything was about, children have to behave properly at all times, seen and not heard and stuff like that. So I would imagine that as soon as I was able to speak, I was probably being told what I could say, where and stuff like that. And also how you have to behave and how you're perceived and all that.

[00:03:23] The Impact of Societal Expectations

Macarena: I don't think it was until my forties that I actually had a clue who I was. I do think it gets easier with wisdom and age. I think we're still connected to these aspects of ourselves. But I think it's easier to know how to just have the foundation be how we show up. I remember having an experience like this when I realized I was behaving differently at home versus out in the world

It was one of these leadership things where the assignment was ask the people around you how they see you. So I was like, "Okay, how do you see me?" And everybody's gave me the professional answer. At the time I was a film producer and they're like, " You get it done. No matter what's going on, you're dependable. You make things happen." And I'm like, " Great. And what else?" And they're like, "Yes, you're the best at that. And you like helping people." I'm like, "Okay, cool." But it was such obvious deficiency in my mind. I am half super silly yet people are not seeing me like that. and the people that are closest to me.

That must've been in my thirties.

[00:04:19] Personal Development and Self-Esteem

Macarena: And I was like, "Whoa, something's wrong here." And part of it, I think had to do with some of these, I like to call them masculine and feminine roles, where it doesn't have to do anything with sex, but, this whole idea of masculine versus feminine qualities.

And because I was a film producer and I had to be on, and I was really good at organizing and managing all those things. I realized I couldn't turn it off when I got home. And at the time. I only dated people I worked with. I was such a crazy workaholic. So then it was a weird thing when it was time to relax.

I almost didn't know what that meant. And I think a lot of my personal development is yes, I can be strong when it comes to those masculine things, but finding the strength in more of the feminine, instead of having to push all the time. More like the being and attracting thing. That's been really interesting navigating all of that and now I feel like I'm at a point where it almost doesn't matter anymore It's just so much easier just to be myself before I almost didn't even realize I was two sided.

Malorie: I think we all come to that realization, a certain point that we think that we're our whole self all the time, but we discover maybe from certain events like that, where we talk to people that, "Oh, I'm not actually my whole self." I don't know that I had that in some regards. But I knew that I was hiding a lot of myself from everybody around me. And so I actually always understood. At least from my late teens onward that there was parts of myself I had to keep secret and hide. I always had a duality where people never got to see all of me in under almost any circumstances. I basically lived in terror of social ostracization all the time. People experience that in a lot of different ways. I think that was really foundational for my experience.

Macarena: Wow.

[00:06:01] The Journey of Self-Acceptance

Macarena: I know you've been with your wife for a long time.

Malorie: Twenty-seven years.

Macarena: Was she one of the people you felt you could be your full self with?

Malorie: Eighty five percent my full self. I'm transgender and like I said, I grew up in this conservative Christian household. So I was basically taught from a very young age because there were signs that I was transgender and my parents detected those signs and actively worked against them. I was told that my natural instincts were detestable and that they would make me an abomination and that all of my sort of base instincts and urges were wrong and shameful. And so even from the people I loved the most, I would hide parts of myself because I was afraid of being judged. Even Jill never actually saw all of me until about five years ago.

Macarena: Wow. Sometimes we have fears and they're not founded. You were in danger, you couldn't reveal yourself, which is a whole other level of complexity and safety. And I think that's why it is so important to have these open conversations about identity and who we are.

Malorie: I think it applies to people who aren't trans as well. There's lots of other scenarios in life where, you're forced into roles. They might be stereotypic gender roles based on a certain type of upbringing that they have, it might be roles that a religion implies upon them, maybe they're in a cult, who knows, and they're trying to get out of that. But if they abandon the role they've been given or fight against it, they either feel strongly that they're going to be ostracized and punished, or they will be. I think it applies to more than just trans people, but eventually the fear of what can happen socially or physically to a person becomes a reality in a way, regardless of how founded it is.

You can fear something happening so strongly that even if someone says to you, "Oh no, it'll be fine." You can't just turn off that fear and be okay.

Macarena: Wow.

[00:07:43] Understanding Privilege and Identity

Macarena: So five years ago, right? That's when the big change happened. And I'm sure your whole life before that prepared you to that. But what gave you the courage or were there certain markers, how did it happen?

Malorie: I think growing up like I did, my entire identity was founded around this conservative Christian worldview that I have. And I'm not against a Christian worldview. I'm not against a small C conservative worldview, by any means. But they compounded one another in a way that everything I believed, everything I knew to be true was all founded biblically and not just necessarily biblically, but what I was told the Bible said about certain things because they're not always the same thing. Like ancient Hebrew had five genders as an interesting little side note. Some possibly six, depending on different interpretations of certain texts. So you're taught all these things and you start digging into the truth and learn that, "oh, everything, a lot of things I was taught were wrong." And I believe that the earth was less than 10, 000 years old and would go around getting in arguments with evolutionists and stuff like that. And like everything that I believe to be true, also said that I couldn't be what I was. So I basically constructed an entirely different person for myself to be that wasn't who I am. But I would spend hours every day thinking about being the person I really wish I could be, which is a woman. And being unable to reconcile that with everything else that I believe to be true. And so it actually for me, and this isn't the process everybody goes through, but I had to completely deconstruct my entire worldview and even my very concepts of right and wrong before I could put myself back together in a way where I could accept that I'm transgender and that's okay. And on top of that, there was a couple of things that happened too like you being a child of the 80s also know from around then and before then, and even decades after that, that trans people were the punchline in jokes. Like Ace Ventura, which is one of my favorite movies of all time, I can't watch because a trans woman is the punchline. The whole joke is like, she's a trans woman. They're like in the shower crying after having kissed a trans person or even just a cross dresser, depending on how you interpret where things were going with how they told the story.

[00:09:43] The Power of Honesty and Reflection

Malorie: This is a weird thing, but Maury Povich is actually like probably one of the reasons why I didn't come out till decades after I'd actually could have. And because there's this episode where they parade out four women in bikinis on the Maury Povich show and they looked. They were gorgeous women. They looked fabulous. They were obviously being displayed a little bit in a way that looking back, I'm like "That's kind of sexist." But then he says, " Which one of them is a man?" And the punchline there was they all were. That's what he said. "They're all men. Because they were all trans women." At that point, I didn't realize that was also something really problematic. But what I thought was " Oh, these people must be born this way. They must have had some sort of genetic difference that caused them to be beautiful women despite having some sort of male attribute and whatnot."

And that could never be me, is the other thing that I thought. Even if I was a woman that I wished I looked like, I would still be a punchline. I would still be called a man. I would be a freak of nature, a sideshow kind of thing. And I didn't want that either.

I had that so firmly in my psyche that trans women are just men in dresses that it took until 2019 for me to actually see that trans women were just women. And yeah, they might look a little different or they might not. Some trans women, you would never know that they were assigned male at birth. I'm terrible with names on the spot, but there's this one artist, art musician I really love and she's trans and you would never have any idea. And she was able to transition young enough that her voice never changed. People all the time will say kids shouldn't be allowed to transition. It's what if you want to be a singer and you go through testosterone puberty, your vocal cords thick, you're thick and your larynx enlarges.

[00:11:09] Embracing Individuality and Diversity

Malorie: You'll never be the singer that you could have been otherwise, or even a gymnast or something like that. Depending on the amount of testosterone and puberty, that could change the way your bone structure works.

And maybe you couldn't do that. Your muscles overdevelop in a certain way. So it can actually have lifelong impact on what you want to do. Long story short, I came to realize that trans people are just people. You can transition later in life and still be really happy. And still look the way that you want to look, which seems like a superficial thing. But I think a lot of people understand that not looking the way you wish you look can be difficult to deal with. And when it's so far off that you have a beard and you wish you were a woman, it can be really hard to deal with.

I guess the whole point was that it took a lot of deconstruction for me to get there and then to reconstruct. I actually went down to the point where I said Okay, I've based my worldview and belief system on what people around me when I was born thoughts like the geography of my birth has informed every single thing I believe. And if I'd been born somewhere else, I would believe entirely different things. And I would be just as certain that I was right in those cases as well. This is not a thing I think a lot of people do, but I'm weird. I sat down and actually discarded every belief that I held that wasn't universally held by all people. And then reconstructed everything that I believed from there after working my way down to this base level of common values that all humans hold. Only after doing that was I able to accept who I really was. Hopefully not everybody else has to go through that much work, but it was what I had to do.

Macarena: Of course you had formal education. You're extremely intelligent. It's so important to self-educate and to learn different perspectives. I think education is the key to everything. And I'm not even talking formal education, but having the curiosity and the willingness to explore things.

So it sounds like that was a really big thing, but also this idea of deconstructing. And there's a book that I talk about a lot because it helped me a lot. It's called The Four Agreements. Are you familiar with it? It's a little gem. Basically he says, most agreements have been placed upon us. And everybody, all humans have to go through and decide which ones you want to keep and which ones you don't.

So he offers four agreements that are universal. Things like be impeccable with your word. Always do your best. Don't make assumptions. Don't take things personally. So very, very powerful, but I would describe it to people as this is how you deconstruct the matrix and figure out how you want to live your life.

And I think that's a universal thing that everybody goes through regardless, because I think that's how we become individuals. A lot of people in my practice, everybody has issues with their parents since we, especially here in the West, do not live in a tribal system where you had no reason to leave, right?

You had to stay. The society depended on that. It's not like that anymore. So our parents have to love us in a challenging way, or else we don't take on that journey of the individual.

Malorie: That does sound very similar to what I did. I had to work my way down to this base number of things that I believed in and only then could I actually start figuring out who I was and then accept who I was, which happened asymmetrically, I feel in a lot of regards. But the other thing I thought was really interesting is, I discovered that even after I came out as trans, I still didn't know who I wanted to be. Cause I'd been masked. I'd created this alternate version of myself to be around everybody. To the point where I believed it, despite the fact that I would spend hours every day wishing that it wasn't that way. And then I'd also had this idealized version in my mind of what it would be like to be a woman. And then I had societies. Idealized version of what it would like to be a woman. And all three of those things were different as I went through this process of discovery, I learned I don't want to be the version of a woman that I wanted to be. I don't want to be the version of a woman that society wants me to be. I want to be this other thing. And that's, I think we're like, we talk about like radical self-acceptance had to come into play. You've talked about gender roles or masculine and feminine things. There's things I like doing that are masculine.

I've got all these computers back there and I love working on computers and tinkering with them and doing woodworking and stuff like that. And those are considered really masculine things. So after I came out as trans for a while, I stopped doing them because I didn't want people to perceive me as being too masculine it took a while before I could accept myself well enough and be confident enough and comfortable enough that I could then

start doing things that way. Because one that I sort of had to accept it's okay if people think this about me, it doesn't change who I am and just be okay with that. It's actually still hard to do sometimes. Because as a trans person, you're judged a lot based on how people perceive you, unless you into the existing box, which sort of aligns with what you're talking about, like those agreements that are put upon us. If you're going to be a woman, you have to be like this. And because a lot of people will look at trans people and they say you're barely a woman to begin with.

So you're like on the edge of the cliff all the time. And that makes it really hard to want to be yourself. and because there's safety in being accepted. There's safety in conformity as a trans person. We call it passing. If you pass as a woman, you're going to be a little bit less likely to suffer abuse or social repercussions and whatnot. So we actually have a saying in the trans community called passing privilege. If you have passing privilege, you can get away with things. And I actually think that applies to non-trans women too. The rationale for why people might mistreat a person is different. But I think any woman who's not trans assigned female at birth has felt that a lot too, where if you don't do certain things to appear properly feminine, you're going to be judged. you might be judged by men, you might be judged by women, but you're going to have to conform in some way.

Otherwise you're going to have a harder time.

Macarena: So interesting. Some points of relation. I like talking about the things we have in common. Further, there's a nuance and a spectrum, but a couple of things. I do a lot of work about self-esteem. And one of the difference between self-esteem and worth is self-esteem and confidence can be task-specific, like someone could be confident at skateboarding, but not confident at rollerblading, for example. Whereas worth comes from the inside. And I think that's the life work we're all doing. But it's very clear to me when one of these self-esteem things corruptions happened in my life. Even though being a woman hasn't really ever been a deterrent, I haven't experienced it like that.

I'm very lucky for that. So I love the movie Toy Story because if you remember Toy Story, all the toys, want to be Andy's favorite toy. Why? It's because that attention and it is that attention of how we show love.

So I'm one of three kids. And I feel very privileged to have had all physical needs provided. But there were some emotional deficiencies there. And I really felt " Oh, my parents, they have a lot going on." My mom was undiagnosed bipolar. They're doing the best they can, but they've got limitations.

So I really took on that parenting role as a kid.

 So as a kid, my parents, had limited bandwidth. My dad traveled a lot. My mom had a career. We were basically raised by our nanny. So that was a big heartbreak when she left. I stopped eating. My sister stopped talking.

Malorie: I bet. It'd be like losing a parent.

Macarena: Very traumatic. And I think I was seven years old.

 So in my parents eyes, it was just easier to classify us. I had an older brother who was very creative. But my little sister became the creative one. So she was the artist. My brother became the troublemaker. And I was the smart one.

They classified us, I think for ease in their mind. Of course, they didn't do this to hurt us or to diminish our infinite nature, but they were doing the best they could.

 So we all fit into these roles. That self-esteem thing that I wanted to tell you about was I remember being in first grade, living in Costa Rica at a Catholic school, La Catolica Activa, it means active Catholic. Oh my God. And I love like that picture of me because we're supposed to wear a little bow.

I'm not wearing it. My hair's a mess. I'm smiling. I have a black tooth cause I fell and did that. So I'm completely disheveled. If you look at that class, I had light Brown hair, we all had Brown hair except for one girl. She had long blonde hair. And I noticed that people treated her different and not just different but better.

So I remember thinking I am glad I'm smart because I'm never gonna have angelic long, blonde hair like that. That's not gonna happen. You know in first grade, based on the judgment I witnessed I made a decision about myself. I'm going to go harder on the smart thing.

And it took years and years to deconstruct that. So when people would give me a compliment, I would only accept it if it had to do something about how smart I was. The funny part with all this is even my parents wouldn't show up to any of the school stuff. I'm like, "don't you want to hear what the teacher has to say?"

And they're like, "Oh, we know what they're going to say. You're the best. You're the smart one. You're the best." I'm like, "that's not the point." So anyway, it's really hilarious that we take on these roles, right? And then we don't even get the thing we're supposed to get from them, like the attention, right?

Why even bother? Why not just be who we are and be cool with having all facets of ourselves.

Malorie: I completely agree. One of the things I always tell people sometimes, cause I also was one of the smart ones. Although it's funny, my older brother was really threatened by me so he always told me I was stupid. And I didn't realize I was actually smart for a long time afterward.

I thought that was actually really unintelligent, but I'm also autistic and didn't pick up a lot of things in school quite the way I should have. So I had problems with that as well. So I didn't test super well in school. I didn't get super great grades until they did not IQ test.

And they found out I had a ridiculously high IQ. And I found the teachers looking at me really differently after that, which I thought was weird. I didn't realize until years later that it was an IQ test. When I went and took them on my own and found that I had a pretty high IQ. But it was interesting that I was really smart, but I thought I was dumb. I think my life could have gone quite a bit differently if I'd been aware of the fact that I was smart. Because I figured I was dumb and had no potential to be smart Which would affected a lot of choices I made. But in the end, I think a lot of things worked out fairly well. I feel like I grew up in spite of everything not because of it. But I do mention to some people sometimes, cause some people say they're just pretty, they get what they want.

Being pretty is actually not easy. It's a lot of work. It can go downhill pretty quickly once you hit your twenties if you don't maintain it. Even being pretty to begin with, takes genetics, but so does being smart. It's a genetic lottery either way. And with intelligence or beauty, if you don't maintain it and work at it and understand it like muscles, like you have to keep it strong through exercising it, it will go away. Your brain can atrophy, your looks can atrophy. So I always say to people if someone's pretty and you think they're getting what they want just because they're pretty, remember, they don't just wake up looking like that every day. They're going to the gym, spending a lot of time on their body, they're paying attention to things, putting a lot of time and effort. And the same thing is true for intelligence. To be intelligent, you have to put in a lot of time and effort as well. I think that either one is possible for most people. I think most people could exercise themselves in either one of these ways and reach a goal they didn't know they had. if you looked at me 10 years ago, people thought I was in my fifties 10 years ago because I didn't take care of my body at all because I didn't like the way I look.

I would go a year or longer without looking in the mirror cause I couldn't deal with how I looked. I looked significantly older and now people think I'm in my thirties and I'm almost 50. So I think

it's surprising how much you can change about who you are in ways that you didn't think were possible to become who you wish you always could be.

Macarena: Wow. That's so interesting. Taking care of ourselves, which is so important. But also I think there's that energetic component that you are spending all this energy pretending or shutting down part of ourselves. Then of course, that's going to have repercussions.

Malorie: Yeah. And if you hate the way you look, that's going to start to affect how you look. Cause you're not gonna have any positive thoughts or energy going toward that.

Macarena: I remember, a lot of people throughout my life have referred to me as their fairy godmother. Some people that's like, "how long have you been coaching people?" I was born, pretty much." I have memories of every grade of everybody, always giving people advice. And then sometimes they come back and they're like, "wow, that thing you said."

And I'm like, "what did I say?" And they're like, "that made the big difference." And I remember one of the first development things I took, were these seminars, The Forum. And it was all this personal development stuff and looking at how you think.

And I loved it, especially as a teacher and having those inclinations. I thought it was quite fascinating. I was surprised that not everybody wanted to do that internal deep work. But in this one case, I had a friend there and then he got really into it, like almost addicted to it.

Sometimes like a hummingbird, like " I like this, I can appreciate this flower, but then I can go appreciate this flower." I never wanted to be boxed in. So I always could see the benefit in everything and everyone. This one time I said, " maybe just try standing up straight and see how that works for you."

And then I didn't see him for three years. And then I ran into him someplace and he's" remember that thing you said?" I'm like, "no." He's like "You told me just to stand up straight. And it's made the biggest difference." And it's " Oh, cool. I'm glad that worked out for you."

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: And now there's papers on that, like superhero stance, the wonder woman stance, the power stance, but it's so true.

 Even those little subtle ways. And then of course, in big ways of how you show up.

Malorie: I actually had something really similar happen just yesterday. I was talking with an author who's gotten to the point where she can just have us run our ads for her. So she just pays us straight out to run her ads for her. And can just sit back from that part of her business. And that took her a while to get there. She said to me, " this success I'm having is entirely because of something that you said." And I'm "like, really, what did I say?" And she's " you told me that you didn't like this one cover of one of my books. And you thought it was the reason why the book wasn't selling. And I changed the cover and I made it have this on it. This series is my living now." I'm like, "I remember not liking that cover. And I'm really glad that you took that to heart because it wasn't a bad cover."

But I totally forgotten I said it entirely until I went and looked at the old cover. I dug it up and looked at it. But yeah, it can be amazing. The impact we can have on people through giving them just small helpful pieces of advice that they can act on.

Macarena: And being honest.

Malorie: Yeah. Yeah. absolutely.

Macarena: We've had some exchanges like this, where you ask me a question and I tell you what I think. And you're like, "that was radically honest. I'm like " I try." I remember in film school, people would ask me, "tell me what you think." I'm like, " do you really want to hear that? Because if you're just looking for praise, ask me for that.

If that's what you want, we can have a conversation about that. But if you're asking me how to improve something, do you really want to hear it?" Then they say "yay or nay" So I find that it's a great policy. It's also very clean. Because then you don't have to remember what you say.

Malorie: And I think that's one of the things of being in the moment. It's okay. If you're in the moment, you don't even have to remember what on earth you said, and then trust that it works out. Yeah, I don't have a good enough memory to keep track of. And if I was to tell people lies or blow smoke up their ass or something like that, I would never remember what I said before. So if I'm just honest all the time, it works because chances are, I'll have the same view later on, and I won't end up contradicting myself or something.

Macarena: One of the things I say is "we all have the right to be confused."

Malorie: That's true. Yeah, I agree.

Macarena: And we can always change our mind. I really operate with there is no wrong. If you're grounded and centered, then it's fine. You can change your mind as you go and correct, continue and continue expanding.

Malorie: I'm a big believer in admitting when you don't understand something. When I was a lot younger, I realized that I would say a lot, and part of it was that I would pontificate about subjects that no one cared about was part of the problem. But the other part of what I found is that a lot of people would just nod and say they understood, or follow along, and actually had no idea what a person was talking about. But they didn't want to look like they didn't get it. So I would say to people " do you understand what I mean by this?"

Just because I didn't want to move on to the next thing if they didn't understand the first thing. Being autistic, I said that in such a fashion that bothered a lot of people because I didn't understand a bunch of nuances of communication that I do now. But even then I believed really strongly that it was okay to say if you didn't understand something and I would do the same. I would say if I didn't understand something or if I needed more clarification, and I'm such a huge proponent of doing that. And I'll still do it even today. I'll be talking with Jill, my wife, and she'll say something. I'm like, "I think I need you to backtrack a little bit. Cause you turned a corner and I missed it. Where are we right now?" What does this apply to? Because if you don't do that, if you don't stop and take that step back and admit when you don't know something and you're just flat out confused, usually for a lot of people, the next response, if you go too far, will be anger.

I'm angry now because I'm confused and don't understand. And so you have to know where to stop before you get to that point of reaching a frustration point where you get angry. And that was, I think a really big thing I had to learn too and even accept about myself to a certain degree, even though I've always understood that I can't know everything. For a while, I think I like to pretend I knew everything. But now that I've gotten enough older, I'm like no I'm dumber than I ever knew I was at this point.

Macarena: And I think the beautiful thing is we can look things up. I remember when I was trying to save the world, and at the same time, I thought I had to protect myself against the world, I was really into information.

And then it gets to a point where, If I can look it up, I really do not need to store it. I rather create space. We were having this conversation. I do think giving yourself the gift of space and to be able to wonder is really healthy. Because most of us overachieving people pleasers, we will fill the calendar with do instead of let me be, enjoy, and have enough time. Like the newest thing is people are afraid to be bored and it's like, try it sometime because it's actually quite healthy to give yourself the space.

Malorie: It's true. No, you're absolutely right. That was something we talked about earlier today in a different call. I recognized in myself, I am not giving myself time to reflect. I like how you said be bored. I like that a lot. I think I need to start taking times during the day where I'm doing tasks by rote.

You said you like to make tea and be chill when you're making your tea. I have a bunch of I'm getting myself ready in the morning or doing makeup or watering plants and whatnot to not be listening to a podcast, to not have a video or music and just be present in my surroundings.

Cause I do really feel like that's when inspiration is going to hit for a lot of things when I have those moments of nothing. I'm opening myself to something good coming in.

Macarena: That's the magic of the shower, right? They're like, "why do I have the best ideas in the shower?" It's because your mind can be free to wonder. I really think it's a gift that we're not giving ourselves.

Malorie: So we should not tell everybody that most people's phones can perfectly handle being in the shower these days. If you have an iPhone beyond a 10, it can actually go 30 feet down for half an hour before water gets in. So you could bring your phone in the shower. You might not be able to charge it for a couple of hours afterwards because it has to dry out. The plug has to dry out.

Macarena: And I think there's so much constant input. It's way too much. I think with Cal Newport, he's got a few books on this abo ut the whole thing of slowing it down. He talks a lot about that. It's okay to be bored.

And I say to people, " Oh, I have nothing to do. Try it." People think " Oh, if you do nothing, you're going to get stuck in that nothingness." And it's I bet you, you couldn't do it for more than three days, even if you tried, because eventually you're going to be like, " all right, I got to do something."

Malorie: I gotta get moving. I think one of the things I do for myself is garden. I mentioned watering plants, but like the act of planting things and taking the time to prepare dirt and get seeds together and all that sort of stuff. That's actually another thing I think that is pretty good for being reflective. And the other thing I love about gardening is that so much of what we do, I think this dovetails what we've been talking about, about the whole, like you have to be active in doing things and whatnot. Everything is based on the result. It's all about "I'm going to do this. I'm going to get this result."

And then I get the dopamine hit and our phones social media and games are all that we might engage in are all built around that. You do the thing, there's the result, you get the dopamine hit. Gardening is different. Because in gardening, there is a result where you're going to get flowers or food or something like that, but the journey is also reward of having a seed and dirt and then life emerging from that and the daily process of watering and watching the plants grow and mature and so on. I feel like that actually is a reward, every step of the way. and almost to the point where you don't even care if you get fruit or flowers at the end because the journey of getting there was rewarding in and of itself. I think we probably need to do that with more things in our life. Enjoy the journey. And consider the journey itself to be the reward. And not just constantly pushing for that end goal and getting the reward and having that just be the dopamine hit and then be looking for the next thing that we can do to get the next dopamine hit. We can just say " Oh that was enjoyable.

And I'm going to start this new journey and feel my reward each step of the way as well."

Macarena: And the beautiful thing about gardening is you're also outside. If you can, it's such a good thing. What provides a lot of that for me is, or was horseback riding. I love being on a horse because I'm outside. I'm in communion with an animal. You have to be present. It's mentally and physically challenging.

I absolutely loved it. But my poor husband, he's like, " We file that under unnecessary risk, honey." I don't want him to get stressed out. I live a little further away. It's been like, "okay, so I do need to come up with something else." That's just for me that kind of hits all those things.

Malorie: That's a grounding thing. Like the touch grass kind of thing.

Macarena: Yes. I feel very fortunate with the doggies. They provide a lot of that, just like

hanging out and being with them.

Malorie: Yep. And going for walks and just being outside because they need to be

outside.

Macarena: Yeah. My husband is definitely more shy. I'm like an introvert extrovert, but I'm probably more of an extrovert. But, unless he has a reason to talk to somebody, he just won't. So the magic of living in a city with dogs is that you're going to talk to people and people are going to talk to you. Especially during the pandemic, "thank God for these dogs or else we'd never speak to anybody." And then the funny part is the dogs love everybody. " I would not have started this conversation with this person, but now that we're here, cool."

We're all humans and we share this beautiful thing of appreciating animals.

Malorie: Yeah, that's very true. And the best thing about dogs too, is dogs are just like they have no filter. They want your affection. They're desperate for your attention and your love. And they will be the neediest, little things until they get that. And while they get that, and they're not ashamed of it at all, which I kind of love, like we all want that, right?

 We all want love and attention and affection, but we try to hide it and be chill and be cool, stuff like that. And the dogs aren't. Dogs are just like, "nope, I'm just going to yip until you give me what I want", kind of thing.

Yeah. And the other thing I think they provide is it gives us a target. Yes, we feel the love from them. But I really do think it's great to have things that we love, whether it's animals or hobbies or whatever, other than just the people in our lives, that gives us a richer, fuller experience.

It does, yeah. I totally agree.

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Macarena: One of the things you had mentioned earlier is this idea of passing.

The way I relate to that is being a Latina. I'm not from here. I was not born in the U. S. and I arrived when I was eight years old and it was a culture shock and not in a good way.

I had been to Disney World before and my idea of the average American was not really good. It wasn't a very bright person. It wasn't a very stylish person. I don't know what I saw on that trip, even though I loved going to the park. I don't know. I just had this fantasy that was not fully accurate.

So when I moved, I didn't speak English. I'm very little. And I remember the first day of class, I somehow won the spelling bee even though I didn't even speak the language. And I was just very surprised about the general ignorance and lack of curiosity, not just from kids but from their parents. Like no sense of geography, saying South America was in Africa, things like this.

And as a kid, my dad traveled a lot and I loved exploring the National Geographic magazines. And I love just staring at the globe. So I had this sense of adventure and curiosity that I thought everybody had. at the time I didn't realize what a privileged education is.

And that's when I first started realizing that even though back then I didn't even speak English, but I passed as American or white, people would treat me differently. So they would be insulting people. And I'm like, " if you're going to call them that, that's me too." And then they're like, "no, you're different."

And I was like, "no, I'm not. I'm really not."

Malorie: My skin might be a slightly different color, but yeah. You said you hadn't experienced a lot of lack of access to things from being a woman, like some women do. And I don't know if this is the case or not, there's a saying in the trans community that passing privilege and pretty privilege, that you can get away with things or be more accepted if you're beautiful.

But I think one of the things that trans people also see on both sides, male to female trans and female to male trans, is we have an insight into the things that no one else can see. Cause I think one of the things you were getting at is that you didn't see doors closing in front of you because you're a woman. But what you probably didn't see is some of the doors. You didn't even realize that there were doors there that would have been standing wide open if you were a man. But because you weren't a man, the door was actually not even available. It was invisible. And being blonde and blue eyed and fair skinned, and perceived to be male for most of my life, I thought that everybody had all these doors open all the time. And opportunity abounded. No one was ever going to stop you from living your dreams unless your dream was to be trans. Then I transitioned and I'm like, "Oh wow. I just watched so many doors close or disappear." And so I think it was one of the great things for everybody is that trans people can validate that. Yes, there are actually things that if you think I haven't been afforded certain opportunities because of this thing, friends will oftentimes say " yes, that is correct. You did miss out on things." I had no idea what privilege was. I didn't even understand the concept of privilege until after I transitioned. Because when you're at the very top and you don't even understand that there's strata, you can't see it. you don't have any idea. And when you're no longer at the top, you're like, "Oh, this is actually a very different world that I live in now." And it was really eye opening. I have experienced a little bit what you said. Because some people don't realize I'm trans, which always blows my mind. But they'll say things about queer people and whatnot. I'm like, "I am right here." So I totally get that as well from a different angle.

Macarena: Yeah. It's interesting to be able to fit in a lot of places and yet really feel like an individual. I always thought it's great to have range. Because of my experience and my upbringing, I have no problem fitting in. And one of the examples I use, I was in Berlin for the film festival and I was at a gala, with celebrities, the whole thing for this movie we were working on.

And at the same night, we met a band at an Irish pub in East Berlin. And I was like, how cool that I felt completely comfortable in a gown and then in jeans and a tank top or whatever it was. And I was like, "Oh, that's so great to be able to feel at ease." And to what you were saying is we don't know what we don't know.

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: And that's why exposure, experience, or representation is so important. Everybody's different stories being told because unless we see it, how would we know? It's not going to happen. So yeah. What a unique experience. And I do feel fortunate that I've never noticed how being female has been restrictive.

I'm sure it has, right?

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: And then I think the creativity and the storytelling thing, my mom used to say, there's no ugly women. It's just women that don't know how to work it. Like they don't know how to get ready. It sounds better in Spanish. I always thought that whatever it is it's how you work it. Like I can't say my name wrong.

A lot of people will say my name wrong. They'll mispronounce it. And I can't do it. I can, but it's really difficult. it just feels so wrong. So then it's " no, this is my name and I'm very proud of it. This is who I am. I like that I don't fit neatly into any box and I can relate to so many things.

So I've taken that they say if you have an ethnic name on a resume, that's a disadvantage. It's just interesting how I'm always like, "no, I think it's what makes me interesting."

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: That I am who I am.

Malorie: Yeah. I think you can absolutely turn negatives into positives by how you embrace it. I think that's true for a lot of people. Like being trans, I could have hidden myself away after coming out and be terrified of going out in public. But instead I embrace it. And I embrace who I am.

[00:38:46] Embracing a Life Without Shame

Malorie: I think it makes me stronger. And that was a really big thing I had to learn. I think it dovetails what you were just saying about your name is that you have to abandon the concept of shame entirely. Shame is something that comes from other people and they put on you.

It has nothing to do with who you really are. I don't believe in shame. I believe in guilt. Guilt I can feel for things that I know I've done wrong that go against my own moral code. But I can't actually be shamed. By other people for anything. And once you live life fully accepting yourself and not having any shame, you become invincible in a way. I'm completely out there.

I love alternative fashion. I wear latex. I have 110 pairs of shoes. I'll also be in the garden in heels sometimes because I'm a ridiculous person and I love computers. I have an OnlyFans. I'm not afraid to say these things about myself and I'm not ashamed about any of them and then no one can ever use them against me. So in a way I become unassailable because there's nothing that people can find about me or point at or like use as leverage against me that I haven't already just said about myself or put out there. And it's the most freeing thing in the world, to live a life without walls. Because you think that you're afraid it'll make you vulnerable, but that vulnerability is actually can be your biggest strength.

Macarena: So beautifully said. I love it. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that once you face shame and put it in its rightful place, you do become invincible, fearless, to be who we are. And I think what makes us interesting is the combinations or the seeming extremes or the opposites or the things that people wouldn't assume about us.

I think what makes us unique. Yeah, not only are you a writer, you love computers and you love gardening. Like how cool are those three things, especially when you combine them, I think makes you super interesting.

Malorie: I used to race cars, and all sorts of things. I embrace all the parts of myself and make them a real part of myself as well.

Macarena: That's very cool.

[00:40:31] The Power of Wonder and Curiosity

Macarena: So in my coaching, I talk about the parts of ourselves and I put them into three categories, wonder, wellness, and wisdom.

Cause I find like most people know what to do, like the wisdom part. There's no lack of wisdom in this world. But there does seem to be a lack of wellness, although it's gotten much better lately.

People are talking about how you have to take care of yourself and all that stuff. But I have found that the wonder has been the part that's lacking. How that would divide into all the different interests make us who we are. So I think that's a quite a healthy way to human. My friend says she helps people human differently or human better.

Malorie: I like what you said. I love that. The wonder. And you talked earlier about there being a lack of curiosity with a lot of people that you saw. I've always felt a very similar thing. I love seeing everything around me. Experiencing things for the first time and again just every year. I love watching flowers bloom and all I get right up close with them, and stare in wonder at this flower and how it's got nectar and pollen. And there's half the insect world lives off of the nectar from flowers and stuff like that.

And the dew that falls on them. I like watching that. I don't ever want to lose that wonder. I think preserving a sense of wonder is one of the biggest sources of joy we can have in life. And despite not being a Christian anymore, I still feel like C. S. Lewis was a huge part of that for me because of the Narnia Chronicles. He made it clear that when people get older and become cynical, that's when they can't see magic anymore. And that getting to this point in your life where you think like you've seen it all and nothing's interesting anymore, is when you lose. All the most amazing things become invisible to you at that point.

I've held onto that. That was one of the things I held onto when I went through my deconstruction. I never want to lose a sense of wonder. I always want to look at nature and the people around me and see the beauty and amazing things and treat it like I'm seeing it for the first time every time. I feel like it makes my life so much more rich and enjoyable. Cynicism is just no fun. Who wants to be cynical?

Macarena: Yeah. I used to be really good at it. I used to be sarcastic and cynical. But that's when there wasn't any wonder in my life. It was pure workaholism. And then I realized that's no way to be a human in this world.

Malorie: Not great humaning.

[00:42:32] Seasons of Life and Self-Discovery

Macarena: That is not the way to do it.

Malorie: Cynicism is a wall to protect yourself against what you're afraid the world might do to you. I really strongly believe you can't have complete joy in your life while you have walls, or you're protecting yourself and you're scared. but it is scary to tear the walls down and to make yourself completely vulnerable and to have no more secrets.

But it's surprising how much stronger you become by doing that.

 I love that. The wonder. And I think that's one of my juvenation secrets. Most people think I'm way younger and I'm like, "that's cool." I think I was off by 15 years when I guessed how old you were.

Macarena: I am a proud 50. Thank you very much. But it's been funny. A lot of times people think I'm way younger and " Oh, okay. Go on."

Malorie: Yes, exactly. Keep it coming. I'll take that.

Macarena: The one time that it was really funny. My step kids are now 18 and 22, so I've known them for a very long time. But one time I was at a grocery store, and they were little. They must've been like, five and 1 . And this woman is like, " are these your little brothers?"

And I was like, "how old do you think I am?" I was like 40. It was really, really funny. It's because everybody thinks we're like them. So she thought I was 22 and I'm like, "God bless you." It was really funny.

Malorie: Yeah. Either you're delusional or I look better than I think I do. It's probably some mix of the two things.

Macarena: I talk about vibe a lot, like how we're resonating and how we're feeling. And I feel like I aged a lot during COVID. A lot. And something weird happened with me where, when I needed to look older, I did. When I was running nightclubs in South Beach, I was 16 years old, and people thought I was already 21. And then, some miraculous, I don't know. I don't even understand how it happened, like around 30 It flipped.

Malorie: I think it's like you said about the vibe you put on. It's like the guy you told that he should just stand up straighter. Like he put it out there. He's changed his vibe and it changed the way he perceived him and apparently had a big impact on his life.

Macarena: Yeah, it's those little things. I read something recently. We're not our age, we're our energy.

Malorie: That's awesome. I like that.

Macarena: Yeah. And right now it's funny because my husband's " I don't want to live forever." And I'm like, " I don't want to live forever either, but I do want to thrive as long as possible. I'm not ready to throw in the towel anytime soon."

[00:44:41] The Joy of Authenticity and Presence

Malorie: I have at least four or five lifetimes worth of things I want to do still. To be honest, I probably have 10 to 15 lifetimes worth of things I want to do. I don't necessarily want to live forever, but I could do with five or 600 years. I think that would be a lot. That'd be good.

Macarena: We're both authors. So I always think about I would make a great vampire because I have a lot of interests. I wouldn't get bored. I would use that time really well, just saying.

Malorie: Oh yeah. Yeah. I would be like a marine biologist and a paleontologist, and I would learn neuroscience and I would do everything. I'd be like, "Oh, what am I going to become a master of next?" I would like to Paint and drive cars and design rockets. Yeah. Everything. I would do it all. I want to know everything and experience everything because there's just so much out there.

Macarena: This reminds me of a really awesome episode of The Sandman. Did you see that? I love that. There was like a twilight zoney one in the diner that was really creepy and dark, which I didn't like so much. But that following episode was that one where he meets the guy, his friend every a hundred years, remember?

And the Sandman is convinced he's not going to last a hundred years because life sucks, right? As an eternal. And then they picked the right guy because he was like, " this is great. I can't wait to experience more." And he went through all of it.

Malorie: Yeah. I was like, this is me. This is who I want to be. Can I be this guy who just keeps living? Cause that seems amazing. And I've got a lot to do.

Macarena: Same.

Malorie: And maybe that's what it is. Cause you, always see people who hit 90 to a hundred years old and they still have interests and they still have things they want to do. And they're excited for life. Maybe that's a big part of it. Guess we'll get to find out.

Macarena: Yes, we will. And while my husband's going through career shifting. And it's just really funny. I'm like, " Honey, I love you and you need a lot more hobbies because I have no shortage of creative things I want to be doing. So I'm not available 24/7 okay."

Malorie: You are not even the hundredth person. I think I've heard that from when their husbands, like they've got pretty much everybody work with their authors, their self-starters, they're doing things, they want to make something and build something. And a lot of them are getting to an age where their husbands are retiring and they're like, "I can't write when he's home because he's always here talking to me and stuff like that and wants my attention." That seems to be a really common theme where they're just like, "he needs to get a hobby and get out of the house."

Macarena: Well the funny part is, you know, I talk about the wonder wellness wisdom and we do need things that activate those things. But we also have to be able to access them within ourselves. I think that's like a foundational healthy thing. Life has its up and downs and we're not always at our best.

Malorie: That's true. That is true. Yeah.

Macarena: We're here to help each other and hold space.

Malorie: One of my biggest things I remind myself and I like to tell people is life has seasons and it's okay for things to go out of season in your life.

[00:47:26] Celebrating Icons of Self-Expression

Malorie: I have a really big woodworking shop that I put together cause I love woodworking and I've got all these tools and I haven't really used them in the last few years. you might be inclined to feel guilty or feel like you failed at doing a certain thing and whatnot. I had a season where I really enjoyed doing this and I loved it. I did it a lot. I built furniture for people and I built it out of reclaimed wood. So I got to really help with recycling and whatnot and giving materials a second life. And I like what I did, but I'm just not in that season right now and it's okay. Maybe the season will come back. Maybe it won't. And that's not a failing. It's not a problem or anything like that. It's just how life works. And I think accepting that life has seasons allows me to feel more joy about the things I've done and the things I might do, rather than feeling like something has slipped by. And I should be doing it, but I'm not anymore or something like that.

Macarena: I love that. I love that. I talk about that a lot in the coaching with relationships. We talk about it's somebody in your life for a reason, a season or extended play?

Malorie: I like that.

Macarena: Yeah. I like that a lot. I was such a workaholic. So for undergrad, I did Environmental Studies and International Relations. And it didn't occur to me to take electives. I don't know, I somehow didn't get it, or I found I was just busy with the classes I found interesting.

 That last year, to finish, I just had one class each semester, something like this, of things I had to take. The rest had to be electives and it was crunch time. I had to get super creative and it was just so funny. This is why I'm such a proponent of people just trying things out. So I was forced to try things out that I was completely out of character.

I remember I had to take a dance class and it was like a stretch class, which was perfect. But then she went to teach at women's prisons. And then I had to take the only other dance class was advanced. Afro Brazilian dance with dance majors and me. It was hilarious and torturous at the same time.

It was really funny. But the other thing that really surprised me was I had to take a jewelry and metals class because again, it doesn't matter what I want to do. I just have to graduate.

At that point, I'm a bit of a minimalist, but I was even more, radical.

My mom was a very fabulous woman, and she would adorn herself beautifully. I was going through a rebellious phase where I was like, " I'm not a Christmas tree. I don't want to wear jewelry." I hadn't really ever done anything with my hands. I loved it. It so fun. I was making Cartier style jewelry. It was so funny. I would have never known, unless I was forced to do this, that I actually do love working with my hands. It's super meditative. That whole making things, which is wonderful. So it's pretty, pretty funny. So I had my season of jewelry making, and then I've gone in and out of other ones.

There was a time where I was making pendulums and then I come in and out and

That's cool. It's fun given the opportunities. I think right after the pandemic, I lived close to a Michael's store and I would be like, whatever they have, I would take. I did the cake decorating. I couldn't stand the taste of those cakes, but I just liked decorating them. It was fun and therapeutic and like arts and crafts.

I realized, I didn't grow up doing arts and crafts, but I actually quite enjoy those.

Malorie: That's cool. Yeah. I like that. And that's actually really cool. You just took whatever classes they had just to enjoy yourself and experience new things. I think that's something I think more people should do, just get out there and just do new stuff just for the thrill of doing new stuff, no matter how old you are. Because there's so much in this world that's amazing, exciting and beautiful. And you're never going to run out.

Macarena: Are you familiar with Creative Mornings?

Malorie: I've heard of it. I think I have.

Macarena: They're a really cool community and it's like a free worldwide organization. Every city has them and once a month they have a theme. And there's usually a live lecture around that theme it's just so fun. You never know, it's always different. It's always interesting. You always learn something.

I absolutely love that artist date idea or a creative date with yourself.

Malorie: That does sound really cool. I love that.

Macarena: Yeah, so that's a lot of fun. I definitely enjoy that.

[00:51:10] The Courage to Be Yourself

Macarena: So I think one of the keys to authenticity is having the courage to be curious. Try things on. Play. it's an underutilized word as a grownup but it's great to play with things because that's how you discover what you like and who you are and how you want to express yourself at the moment.

And being dynamic creatures, that's going to change. I love what you mentioned about everything has its season and it is okay to explore and try them on.

Malorie: And it's okay if a season ends. You don't feel guilty about it You can just embrace the next season.

Macarena: And a new season always comes. I think that's the part to remember. And that's the gift of tapping into those cycles.

Malorie: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Regardless of whether you want it to or not, a new season will come.

Macarena: Exactly. So let's enjoy what is. Being present. That's where the magic is, being present. And being yourself or being authentic is a strategy to be present. Because what takes us out of being present moment or being grounded is if we're too in our head or we're too in the past or worried about the future.

So when we have the courage to explore and figure out who we are, it makes it so much easier.

Malorie: I completely agree. That's, how I live my life. I live in the present as much as possible. The past barely matters. I barely live in the past at all. And the future I think about, because I don't want to be destitute when I'm old or something like that. But, I don't want to reach a point in my life and look back and realize that I never did the things I wanted to do because I was always worried about the future.

And so the present was never what I wished it was. My life is gone, I want to enjoy every step of the way. It's like I'm a plant in the garden and I'm going to love every part of growing. When I was coming out, I realized that was hard to be satisfied with where I was physically, with my body and whatnot.

I was always thinking if I do this or that, then I can be happy. At one point I sat down and said to myself, if I don't learn to accept who I am now and love who I am now, how will I even know how to love myself when I get to the point that I want to be at? That I won't understand self-love and self-acceptance if it's always contingent upon something else happening. I have to learn how to do that now, regardless of what my body looks like, regardless of my circumstances. I have to love myself. I have to love where I am. And that's actually where the joy will be. It won't be at some mystical time in the future when I've ticked off a bunch of boxes or something like that. That was a big part of self-acceptance.

Macarena: Wow. That's a wonder, wellness, and wisdom piece. It's all three of those. It's a foundational piece of being able to choose joy and be satisfied where you're at. I talk a lot about gratitude and sometimes people misinterpret that. It's not to deny where you're at. It's you have to accept where you're at, acknowledge it, accept it, and then decide how long you want to hang out there.

When are you ready to pivot? And depending on what's going on. There's different tolerance for that, of course, but I love that. So when you were able to look the way you want and you could enjoy it,

you had already done the pre work.

Malorie: Otherwise I might not even recognize it. I think that happens to a lot of people. They've never learned to be happy with who they are. So whenever they meet their goals, they don't recognize that they've even met their goals. And they're just looking over the next hill, even when they've achieved what they wanted to achieve and then they never actually get the joy that they've been seeking.

Macarena: Wow. I relate to this as a recovering workaholic. I have all the things I want to do, and then I usually get into a groove. And then things that I do love interrupt them, like traveling, like right now it's summertime and it's interesting talking to people that don't have children or are not in a partnership.

Very, Very different experience of what goes on in the summertime. I had to remind my husband, he was like, "things are moving slowly." I'm like. "It's summer, people are dealing with graduation still." I am going through that battle myself of there's the things I want to do and then the reality. Because I do love myself and believe I deserve to have glorious magical experiences every day, I am choosing to be satisfied and be present with whatever is going on.

If I'm busy traveling, great. I'm going to enjoy that. When I'm not doing that, just be present with whatever it is as a tool to be okay when there's a lack of structure and the pace is out of whack and all of this stuff. And I think it's making that choice because we deserve to be happy.

We deserve the magic. We deserve all those things. And the best way is just to be centered and present and enjoy them.

Malorie: Absolutely. I love that.

[00:55:24] Judgment and Self-Acceptance

Macarena: I really think it's sad the way we judge ourselves and judge each other. I got pleasure to going to that Madonna concert, her celebration tour. And I've had the pleasure of meeting her in the past and she's amazing. And I almost didn't even care to go to the concert because I've been to so many concerts in my life, but I'm so glad I went because it was fantastic. And then I was really surprised how people were nitpicking.

And everything about it. Even the people who enjoyed it. I thought she looked fantastic in all those clothes and what she's like 70 or something. It's amazing. The stamina, all of it. I find it amazing. So I thought she looked fantastic. She's an athlete, like to me, she's long-distance athlete to be able to like tour and do the things she does. So I thought she looked fantastic. And then I said, "Oh I saw on social media that people were nitpicking her and criticizing her." And then people took that as an invitation to be like, "Oh, here's my criticism. I didn't like this, that, or the other."

And I'm like, "Oh my God. Why do we do this? Why do we do this to each other? And why do we do this to ourselves?"

Malorie: Yeah. We suck the joy out of things by only looking at the negative and tearing things down when there's plenty to love and enjoy in a performance like that or whatever it might be. We see it in TV shows and movies so much too. People focus on the negative and all the things they don't like about it.

Most of the time I'm like, "I liked the show. It entertained me for two hours. That's what it was there for." And why would I spend any time thinking about, unless it like actively bothered me in some way and I was unable to enjoy the show because of how much it bothered me. But even then, a lot of times I can just say "it's just a story. I can still enjoy it." But yeah, it is unfortunate that people do that, that they'll suck the joy out of things and try to draw the joy that other people are feeling out as well and replace it with dissatisfaction. That seems terrible, to be honest.

Macarena: The misery loves company thing. And I'm with you. I want to be entertained. I'm watching something for fun. Sometimes I love seeing comedies and then people are like, "Oh, I didn't like this or the other." I'm like, "did you laugh?" "Yes." "Success."

Malorie: Right? Ta da! It did what it was supposed

Macarena: It did what it was supposed to. And it's somebody's interpretation of the story. Cool. So yeah, even though I was a filmmaker, I've been to film school, thank God, I don't have to have my critique hat on unless people ask me then it's a different story. But I can enjoy it.

[00:57:40] The Magic of Music and Creativity

Macarena: Taylor Swift.

What does that bring up for you?

Malorie: I think people do the same thing to her that you mentioned they're doing to Madonna. They're constantly nitpicking her and her outfits and has she gained five pounds or something like that. I saw people today complaining, apparently Billie Eilish's manager, I don't know for sure what was said, I just saw that being repeated, said that Taylor Swift is making it harder for other artists to shine. And I'll see in there and they're like, people like, "yeah, cause she's like releasing an album every other week." And I'm like "for starters, she's not." But for me, I'm like, "I admire her hustle. That's a killer work ethic. Hopefully she learns how to calm down at some point.

Cause I think you and I have both been through a similar thing where you work yourself to the bone. But I also do actually believe when the sun's up. If you're feeling energized and creative and inspired to produce music or books or whatever it might be, yeah, do that.

Cause It's not going to be there forever. It'll come up time when she's not going to want to make an album a year or an album every five years. So the fact that she's just like rocking it while she can, that's fabulous. I love that for her. It was actually an intense amount of hubris to think that I could tell what she should do with her life or her activities might be doing for other people, like the number of people that take joy and excitement and what, and from her, I feel like you would actually have to have a really high opinion of yourself to assume that you could understand what her career means to her or what she means to everybody else out there.

Let her do her thing.

Macarena: Oh, great. I think it's okay to have opinions. But it is ridiculous to expect that we can have a say on anybody. We barely have a say in any control of what goes on in our own lives. We're supposed to like dictate and direct other people's. It's absolutely absurd. Yeah, I don't know why and it's really sad.

I hate to see that. I hate people pooh poohing on others because you don't have to be their target market. I use that a lot. " What did you think of the movie?" And I'm like, "I am not the target market." For that, what do you think of this book?" I'm so the target market for that, but I'm not the target market for this."

So I remember when Eminem came out and I was like, "Oh, this is good. I don't really care for it, but I am so glad he's expressing himself this way." I remember thinking about that, which I think is quite healthy. And then same thing with Taylor Swift. She is remarkable. She's incredible. Now she's directing everything and she's doing everything.

 She's a beam of light in this world.

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: Expressing herself. We're Scorpio, so we're not so out in the open like that. But to manage your life in the public eye like that seems like a nightmare to me. To be able to do that and be human and figure it out and manage it, I think she's incredibly remarkable.

I'm so happy when this last album came out. I'm always like, " a pop culture thing is happening. Let's pay attention. Let's participate. Then we played like the whole day. it was like, "this is amazing. This is great."

 it's so wonderful how she expresses herself. I think that's what I'm a fan of. My whole thing is about Lighthearted Empowerment and self-expression. So when I see people doing that, I'm like hooray, hooray.

Malorie: And I agree wholeheartedly with all that, I'm tremendously impressed by her fortitude. Because not only is she one of the most visible people in the world and scrutinized people in the world. She's still young, and I don't think I would have had a tenth of the maturity at her age that she has to be able to handle everything she's gone through. I think I would have gone through a huge breakdown trying to manage everything that's thrown at her and everything that's put on her. And the fact that she does it with such grace is mind blowing

Macarena: And you can tell she's enjoying it. I don't know if you watched her documentary and stuff, but she doesn't almost acknowledge how talented she is because she has to create. So that was really interesting to observe. She's going to do the music, whether or not she's selling it.

That's super clear. So what a beautiful thing that she figured that about herself. I think, yeah. It's beautiful.

Malorie: Yeah, it is.

Macarena: The Billie Eilish thing or the manager, what lack mentality, my God. The idea that there's not enough for anything, like there's plenty of room for everyone to succeed and have an audience and express themselves.

Malorie: Yeah, it's not pie. There's not a finite number of slices. There's enough. There's so many people and we have so many hours a day where we're listening to music and enjoying stuff like that. I can listen to Billie Eilish and Taylor Swift. I can do both of these things. It's crazy. And we're also not buying $20 CDs anymore or anything like that. We're all streaming on Spotify. It doesn't cost us more money as consumers to have additional content that we're listening to.

Macarena: And whereas I think the thing about music is I love it to match a mood. Whereas books take longer to consume and different things like that. But music, it's like, "Oh, I'm in the mood for this. I'm in the mood for that." And you could be in the mood for both of those artists, for example, within 30 minutes and it's wonderful.

Malorie: Yeah, it is. I agree. It's wonderful is the best word for it. It totally is.

Macarena: Nice.

[01:02:21] Fearless Expression and Reinvention

Macarena: And Lady Gaga. Talk about an amazing Lady Gaga, how she expressed herself and writes her own songs. And I'm always amazed about that. The creativity. And a funny story about Lady Gaga, years ago, the Miami Heat was in the playoffs, and I one of the local stations had done a song about the Miami Heat and I heard the song and I'm like, I cannot believe how good this song is that they made for this. It didn't match. Because it was so well produced, but I hadn't heard it.

They took Lady Gaga's On The Edge of Glory and rewrote it for the Heat at the playoffs. So it was really funny once I figured out, Oh no. They took something that's incredible by itself and then just changed the lyrics. But I remember I'm like, "I just heard the most amazing song."

And it wasn't until days later that I realized it's Lady Gaga. No wonder.

Malorie: No wonder it's so good. Yeah. I think the thing I like about her too, is that she wasn't afraid to reinvent herself to reach her goals. And she's done it more than once too. And she also spent the time to really build up her skill set. Like she used to be a concert pianist. She's classically trained and is an amazing musician. And then thought about the entire experience of what she was making and was deliberate about what she was making. I admire when people really put thought behind things and think stuff through. I also love when people have serendipitous moments too. I guess they're both just amazing, but I love watching both of them happen.

I also I like her chutzpah. Lady Gaga is not afraid to do crazy things and just put herself out there. I think it's been really good for her. And I think it's like awesome to behold as well.

Macarena: Yeah, I remember at the very beginning, like same thing with Taylor Swift, one of her first albums, I'm like, "this girl is great. And she writes her own songs." And I remember when Lady Gaga came out, I was having lunch with some people and they were like, "ah, whatever." And I'm like "no. You need to pay attention to this woman because she's the next big thing." She's so talented. And then the artistry and the theatrics, of course, of her clothes, especially at the beginning, I thought that was a lot of fun. And it reminded me, I was very fortunate to grow up in Miami Beach in the nineties, where it was very diverse, gay and straight, and everybody. You had trans people, but you had incredible drag queens, you had everything.

And I love that about it. I knew some people that were maybe not what you would think is classically beautiful, but the way they express themselves with the artistry of fashion was very much in that vein.

They're, free enough to play and express themselves at this high level, which is inspiring.

Malorie: Yeah. And that does take a lot of removal of shame and judgment of others from how you perceive yourself and want to live your life, which is a hard thing to do, but it's so amazing when you get to do it. What you said is very emblematic of what she says people are attracted to fearless, honest people. So when they see someone who's putting themselves out there and making themselves vulnerable, they know that person is generally more authentic. They're going to be less likely to blow smoke up your ass. And they're fearless. People don't want to be around cagey liars. We don't want to surround ourselves with people that are shifty suspect and always in double talk and don't share who they really are. And so we see people that are really sharing who they are really open. We're like, wow, that's actually a safe person to be around because I know that I'm getting the real them all the time.

Macarena: I don't have to worry about any sort of duplicity from them because they're completely wide open. There is no duplicity. You think it's scary at first to come out and be who you really are, but it's actually empowering and it attracts people. It's a wonderful time. And especially thinking of the Lady Gaga case, she was so talented, like with the instrumentation and all her skills that she was so grounded in that, that she could be seen as, frivolous or whatever. So to me, that's even greater confidence and strength and courage. Sometimes women are not taken seriously or seen as one dimensionally, those constraints. And it was like, " I'm going to use that as a vehicle, not just of expression, but to express this part of myself."

And then you're right. They're reinventing. And I think that's was one of the beautiful gifts we got from growing up with Madonna.

Malorie: Yeah.

Macarena: She went through so many phases, but she was still herself throughout, like you never said, "Oh, she's changed in a bad way." No, she's just expressing a different part of herself.

And I think her first album came out when I was 14 years old . So I feel very fortunate and liberated to have been able to grow up with her. And see an example of what is possible as a businesswoman, as a creative person. All of that.

Malorie: Those three women are great examples of how to be yourself and own what you are in spite of everything around you and be successful doing it. It's really inspiring.

Macarena: Beautiful.

[01:06:50] Final Thoughts on Authentic Living

Macarena: So in closing, are there some tips or steps to maybe recap it?

Malorie: I think one of the things is experimentation. Figure out who you really are. I do believe that a lot of people don't actually know who they would be if they're not trying to live their life for other people. Experiment with who you are. Try things out.

Like you talked about going out there and doing different things and expose yourself to different things because you might be surprised by who you actually are underneath all the expectations have been put on top of you. And then most people in many regards, they live their lives in fear of judgment and lack of acceptance. I feel like if you come out, honestly and authentically with who you are and you lived your life without shame, people will actually come to you and tell you that you're brave. People started doing that to me all the time. They're like, Oh, you're so brave. And I'm like, " I had to do it on the self-preservation at a certain point to come out."

But when I realized what they were really saying is I have things in myself that I'm afraid to share because of judgment. And so I see you doing that as bravery. And that told me that pretty much everybody has things inside of themselves that they're hiding because they're afraid of judgment. But what will happen, as long as it's ethical, this thing you're afraid of is that people will actually respond positively to the real you. They're going to see the real you as an empowering person and a person they're going to want to be around. And that most time our fears of judgment are unfounded, actually. That we will find ourselves accepted by those around us . You won't be accepted by everybody. Why would you live your life for people who would discard the real you? Why would you pretend to be something you're not to be accepted by people that actually hate what you really are? Like why suffer for their pleasure? So you won't lose anyone that you need Step away from the fear and find that being authentic is what's going to make you stronger. Being shameless is going to make you stronger. And you're going to find the connections you make afterwards to be better than anything you could have imagined.

Macarena: That's beautifully put. I think humans are judging machines --not in a bad way. This is just how we're wired. So we're all judging each other anyway. If you're going to be judged either way for pretending to be somebody else, why not just be who you are?

Yes. I completely agree. Be judged for who you really are not someone you're pretending to be. And then, not just own it, but put it into perspective. I recently cut my hair and a lot of people liked it. Some people did not. And it was a great gut check to be like, that is of no consequence. their opinion does not matter.

It was great. Empowering to go through that and it's okay. If people are disappointed because they don't like how I did my hair, it has zero consequence. So I talk a lot about like the questions we ask: does that matter? No. So someone is judging you about something.

Does it matter? Chances are it doesn't. Like 99 percent of the time, so it's life and it's okay.

Malorie: Change is a good thing. So embrace it.

Macarena: And inevitable, right? we have to change.

So it has been a pleasure.

Malorie: It has.

I just want to say thanks for having me on. I love this conversation and I hope it's helpful for people. And empowering for people and maybe people will be a little bit more willing to step away from their fear and things holding them back.

And just figure out who you are and be that person. I think it'd be amazing.

Macarena: Thank you, Malorie. I love you as a human.

I love speaking with you. It's always a pleasure. And I do see you as a beautifully brave and inspiring human. So thank you.

Malorie: Thank you very much. It's awesome being here. Have a great day.

Sponsor: I want to thank our sponsors, Spark Social Press, my publisher, for supporting our show and their commitment to spreading joy and empowerment through their magical books. Spark Social Press believes in the power of mindset and the magic of self-expression. Our enchanting children's book series, The Grateful Giraffes, teaches little ones the importance of gratitude and positive thinking.

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At Spark Social Press, We believe everyone is glorious and deserves to be fulfilled with more wonder, wellness, and wisdom. That's why our books are designed to spark creativity, uplift spirits, and empower readers of all ages. To discover the joy of self-expression and spread more wonder in your life, visit sparksocialpress.com today. Together with Spark Social Press, let's embrace the magic of mindset one book at a time. Once again, a big thank you to Spark Social Press for sponsoring the show and for bringing more wonder, wellness, and wisdom into the world through our thoughtful and inspiring books.

Outro: Wow. What a journey we've been on together. I hope this episode has left you feeling inspired, empowered, and ready to embrace the magic in your life. I'd love to hear about your experiences and insights. Please tag me on social media using the hashtag magical mindset podcast, or leave me a DM to share your wins, challenges, and aha moments.

Let's keep the conversation and the magic flowing beyond this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and for being a. Until next time, keep shining your light and embracing the wonder of each day. You've got this!