✨ Magical Mindset Podcast: Schemas & Core Beliefs

Unlocking the Power of Positive Core Beliefs with Macarena and Mackie Jones

[00:00:00] Introduction to the Episode

Macarena: In this episode, we're going to explore what makes you unique. We're going to talk about schemas and how we see the world.

Intro: Welcome to Magical Mindset with Macarena luz Bianchi, where we explore the magic of mindset, gratitude, and purposeful living. I'm your host, Macarena, and I'm thrilled to have you join me on this journey of wonder, wellness, and wisdom. You can find the episode show notes, your free Magical Mindset Blueprint, and more at xpres.me/podcast. And here's the show.

[00:00:40] Meet Mackie Jones

Macarena: I'm so excited for my guest today, Mackie Jones. She's a behavioral analyst and happens to be one of my besties. Macarena Jones is also from Chile. We have known each other since we were teenagers which is quite amusing. So welcome Mackie. I'm so happy you're here.

Mackie: Thank you very much for having me, Macarena. My name is also Macarena, but I usually go by Mackie. I was born in California. My parents are from Chile. I've lived in Miami, Florida for a very long time, which is where you and I met, many moons ago. I originally went to school for business, but after raising my children, went back to school for what has always been my passion, which is psychology, and I became a behavior analyst. And now I'm getting a doctorate in clinical psychology.

Macarena: Exciting, exciting.

[00:01:36] Funny Origin Story

Macarena: Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the talk that I can't wait to have with you, the discussion, we have a pretty funny, origin story. We met in Miami Beach, Hay Day, back in the day. And then it just so happens that you married who I consider to be my high school sweetheart.

Mackie: That's right. Small world.

Macarena: What a small world. And the funny part about that is I remember when we ran into each other years later, which was years ago now.

I was like, Oh my God, Macarena. And I forgot that you were married to him completely. I thought you had married somebody else. And it was really funny because I had seen your twins and they looked just like him when they were little.

So that was pretty funny.

Mackie: Right.

Macarena: I remember that I was like, Oh, isn't that interesting? I don't have much in common with him, but I have everything in common with you, with her. And that's who I want to hang out with. So we've been great friends for a very long time. We have a lot in common. Of course, we're both from Chile.

We're both named Macarena. It's so fun to be out and about because we forget. And in Miami, that name is still like a bit of an enigma. So whenever we go someplace and let's say we're going to a nail salon and we put our names, Macarena. And then they're like, so we had so much fun having those interactions out in the wild, the two Macarenas.

So to you, I'm the other Macarena and to me, you're the other Macarena,

Mackie: That's right.

Macarena: which is really something. And it's okay, you call me Mac most of the time because that's what people used to call me when I was young, before the song came out and they couldn't pronounce it.

Mackie: That's right. Before that song. Oh my goodness.

Macarena: Yeah. And talk about, trauma. So Mackie.

Mackie: Yes, Mac?

[00:03:32] Schemas Explained

Macarena: what are schemas?

Mackie: So schemas are our core beliefs. And it's how we see the world, how we see others, how we see ourselves. And they're usually formed while we're growing up, through interactions with our caregivers, and the world itself. And they're very important because depending on what your core beliefs are, is whether you're going to have a positive outlook or a negative outlook.

And then the fact is that everything we see, we will try to make it fit into that core belief that we have. And if we see something that's contrary, we'll dismiss it. And we'll try to defend that core belief so we can get trapped in a very negative, painful, view of the world and of ourselves and of others.

Does that make sense?

Macarena: Wow, absolutely. And this reminds me a bit of the Enneagram. So that's a personality test. But what's cool about it is it allows you to see what happens to you, what you revert to when you're stressed versus when you're feeling safe and expansive. And so it's a really useful tool to play with this. And then because you realize there's nine of them and you have one predominant one. We have all of them, of course, but we have a predominant one. It allows people to see, Oh, not everyone sees the world like I do. So me as a seven, as an enthusiast, as an assertive enthusiast, I skew positive.

And there's other people in my life who are not that. Like one of them in particular, who's a four and they skew negative. And it's quite interesting, the contrast. So there's some opportunities there to balance each other out. But then there's also some built-in kind of triggers. And I would say even maybe some resentment because of it. With a behavioral analyst like you or with a therapist or with other tools, how can people break out of the confines of their schemas? Can you give us an example of what this looks like?

[00:05:40] Interpreting Events and Core Beliefs

Mackie: Okay, so for instance, it's not necessarily the event, it's how you interpret the event that makes a difference. A professor of mine gave us this example. Let's say there's a man sitting in a chair in his house, and then here enters the wife into the room, and throws some papers, slams it on the table, and says, I want a divorce.

And then he asks the class "what do you think the guy was thinking at that moment?" Some people were like, "Oh, he's very angry." Or some people were like, "he's shocked". Or other people were like, "he's relieved". And so it's really important that we question

Macarena: when things happen, how are we interpreting what is happening? Because that will dictate how we see things. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. So you gave a good example. The next question is what was the guy thinking?

Mackie: So that's the thing. Depending on how he interprets the event of his wife telling him I want a divorce is whatever he's going to be feeling or thinking, right? When things happen to us, we should step back and look at the situation and pay attention to what we're thinking about the situation. Because that will dictate how we end up feeling and what we end up doing.

Macarena: And it's hard in the moment. But you said when things happen to us, some people think things happen to us. Some people think things happen for us.

Mackie: That's the other thing is that things just happen.

Macarena: Exactly.

Mackie: And whether they happen to us depends on how we see the situation, how we interpret the event.  As as things are happening, we should pay attention to what happened before, what happens after, and what we're thinking when things are happening.

And then the chain of effects after that is what emotions come up, what do we do as a result of the emotions that come up. And as we're analyzing all of that, we can start to really understand the schema, our core beliefs about things. We can actually make changes once we become aware of it.

And it doesn't mean like we can't tell somebody, Oh, just change because it doesn't work that way. But you can learn to evaluate whether maybe a core belief, is it working for you? Is there an evidence to support? Is there another explanation for how you view things? And actually that can help you heal a lot. Because having negative schemas are very hurtful. And they can make you feel very lonely and isolated. At the end of the day, it may just be that you're interpreting things in a way that you can change it.

Macarena: It sounds like what is needed. Like the actions that are needed is awareness and a process of debriefing. So I tend to do this with my husband. If we're out and things happen, we debrief. But it's very important to have an internal debrief. So sometimes people talk about reviewing the day?

What mistakes were made in a good way? Because that means you tried new things.

What are you grateful for? And how did you navigate through the world? That implies that people have these practices. That's why I'm such a big fan of journaling. Everybody talks about the AM pages, which is a wonderful way, I think, to process what's going on subconsciously. And I think the PM pages are really important or doodles.

Some people just need to doodle as they think. Some people do this in the shower. Some people do this while they're brushing their teeth. So I think it's really important to debrief the day especially if an event happened that was unpleasant.

[00:09:15] Tools for Addressing Negative Schemas

Macarena: So what tools would you suggest for people that find themselves having schemas that are not working for them?

Mackie: Okay, so I'm a big believer in being very practical. I'm super busy, like beyond busy. I'm juggling a lot of things all day. And it's hard for me sometimes to find the time, right? So an easy thing would be to have on your phone, a voice memo. And when something happens, and you find yourself feeling let's say angry, you can quickly just do a voice memo and do a Thought Record where you say quickly what happened, what your thinking was of what happened, what you're feeling, and what happened right after the event, and what did you do? What was your behavior? So behavior is whatever. Whether you're thinking is a behavior, whatever you're saying is a behavior, and whatever you're doing is a behavior, meaning like a verb. Think of it as a verb. And if you do that throughout the day, depending on whether you're feeling sad or angry or some emotion that you would rather not have, then you can maybe start finding a pattern and that would be like step one.

Macarena: I like it. Some people are auditory. I think there's a lot of healing power in the voice and to speak things out. So I love that. I hadn't heard of that before. That sounds really like a very useful and easy thing to do the moment you can get some privacy, like wherever to what happened? What was your reaction? What were your thoughts? What were your feelings? Is that a positive thing for you? Like you said, are there other options? But maybe that analysis happens later. But what I like about what you just said is that it allows people to acknowledge. Because people can make the mistake . Like I talk a lot about gratitude and some people misinterpret that as don't feel what you're feeling.

Just no. You don't jump straight to gratitude. You have to feel whatever is going on. You have to process it. And then, how's that working out for me? Are there any other options? What can I be grateful for in this experience? And this brings up something that's been coming up lately. There was a belief system that everything happens for our benefit. And that doesn't mean terrible things don't happen. Terrible things happen all the time. when things are happening, the timing, it's really important. If you're in an emergency, you have to deal with an emergency.

If something terrible is happening, if you're in danger, you have to get yourself out of danger. Yet later on, the event can be viewed to see if you ask the question, what is the gift here? If there is one. Sometimes there isn't. But I have noticed again, because of the schemas that you will look for what you find, right?

Like the schemas is in a way like, Oh, what about red cars? And suddenly you start seeing red cars everywhere. It's the same thing. the brain will fill the void of whatever you ask it to. Is that how it works?

[00:12:18] The Power of Associations

Mackie: So it's based on associations. For survival reasons, our brain makes associations. And the quicker we are, the faster we can process a dangerous situation. Let's say you were in the middle of a forest and you see a bear and the bear attacks someone you know in front of you.

You will make quickly an association between bear and danger and you know how to get out of there as quickly as possible. So next time, if you even sniff a bear in the horizon, you will quickly get out, right? So the brain was made for us to survive . That's evolution. That's why we're here.

Our ancestors were really great at surviving. But through that association, the problem is that we're not always in the middle of a forest with the danger of a bear around us. But our brain will still make those associations just as readily. Again we look for things to support our core beliefs, whether they're positive or negative. We will scan the whole room, we'll scan the whole situation, and whatever supports it, that's what we're going to pick up. Whatever is contrary to it, we will dismiss it. So we have to start paying attention to those things that we see that are potentially contrary to our negative core beliefs and giving it a chance to try to incorporate it and change the possibilities of how we view things.

Macarena: So are schemas like our biases? Is that the same thing?

Mackie: Yes, because we are biased to what we see. If it fits our core beliefs, we accept it. If it doesn't, then we reject it.

Macarena: So that's why it's healthy to stretch yourself when possible. Talk, have people in your circle that have different opinions. Expand, have diversity when it comes to conversation, sources, et cetera, friendships.

Mackie: And that's why step one of paying attention to your thoughts when things happen is important because then you can try to see okay, what are the core beliefs here? What is my automatic thought when things occur? And then from there you can start looking for stretching as you said. And looking for other possible explanation for how you could have seen a situation or you could have thought about a situation, which your thinking matters because if you can change some of the things, some of your automatic thoughts, core beliefs, then that will lead you to feel differently, which potentially to feel better.

And then, therefore, to do different behaviors. It's a better cycle. And eventually changing your behavior will lead to thinking better, then that will lead to feeling better. And so on.

[00:15:05] Exploring and Experimenting with New Perspectives

Macarena: It sounds like we all need to examine our operating system and do conscious upgrades every now and then. So if step one is awareness, what is step two?

Mackie: So step one is awareness. And then step two is looking for alternative explanations. Stretching. Talking to other people that maybe have a different perspective and exploring it. It doesn't mean you just accept things, you explore them. You maybe do a little bit of an experimenting. Try it out.

And I can't tell you what to think, or to think like me because you're not me, and vice versa. But I can maybe, try something that you're doing and see if that works for me. And if it doesn't, Oh but then, keep growing, keep stretching, keep trying, keep exploring and experimenting.

Macarena: I love that. So number two is exploring, experimenting. It sounds like the key word there would be curious. To have curiosity, just so that you can have a more playful relationship to it. As I'm all about lighthearted empowerment. There's a lot of serious things in the world.

So our personal development, I don't think has to be, if you can avoid it. Some people can't avoid it. Some people, that's where they're at and that's where they have to start. And I love applying playful aspects to these things. So like for step number one, attention, awareness. I think like the key word is pay attention, like the action there.

So step two is look for alternatives. The action would be curious and don't be afraid to brainstorm, to try things on, to play, correct, continue, and repeat, explore.

I love that word.

Mackie: And so in your previous podcast, you were talking about permission to play. And I think in this one, it would be like permission for a new perspective, to gain a new perspective. Because a lot of the times we get married to what we believe, and we don't want to open the possibilities for something different. Which I think we should always be learning.

Macarena: How can we not be learning? We are learning no matter what. However, I think if we allow it, then it could be so much more fun.

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[00:17:41] Personal Development and Learning

Macarena: Let me tell you, we have this saying. We've had it for a very long time, that, old dogs don't learn new tricks. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Mackie: That's completely nonsense. As a behavior analyst, I will tell you that we learn every single day. We can learn new ways of thinking, new skills, every single day. We are constantly learning, every moment. With everything that happens, we learn something. I learned how to snowboard in my mid forties, okay?

I'm doing a doctorate and I'm way past my mid forties now. And sometimes being the oldest one in my class, it feels very strange. But you can learn. We can constantly be learning. So it's important to just try to keep that in mind, open your perspective and try new things. And be curious and explore because some things you'll be like, Oh my God, yeah, I like this.

This is something different. This is something good. And sometimes you'll be like, yeah, I don't really like this. And that's okay. At least you tried. But it's important to keep exploring.

Macarena: I've noticed in my own life, and of course, with my clients, that people suffer because they get so trapped into one thing. And in my personal life this comes up because back to the Enneagram, so I'm a seven, I'm an enthusiast.

My husband is a one and they have different names, but they're also known as the perfectionists. So all of these have their positive sides and their negative sides. Everything in the world. Everything's neutral. It's how you're working in how you're looking at it. So when they feel limited or put in a corner or anything like that, he can get very much into there's one way to solve this problem.

And it's usually, my way or the highway. And I am so about the options. I'm always like, there's infinite possibilities. So it was really helpful to have that knowledge that no matter what the situation is, I'm the options person. This is why I was a good film producer.

This is why I'm a good consultant is because I'm all about the options. Where him, he's an amazing leader because he'll do whatever thing that needs to be done that's difficult so the ship doesn't sink. So he'll be it's this way. And a lot of times in a do or die situation, that is absolutely correct.

But most of the situations are not that. So I get to experience that. So I'm all about the options. I think it's really important like with sensitivity, with dealing with other people.

[00:20:22] Navigating Difficult Conversations

Macarena: Like sometimes someone is going through something really bad.

And this happened lately where someone's relative was going through a very scary, like an organ transplant. And everybody's Oh my God, hoping for the best, bah, bah, bah. But then there was one person that's you have to make peace with death. And it's okay. Not the time. Read the room.

Sure. I love talking about death. I think we should all make peace with death. But when your father is having an organ transplant, that's not the time . That's the time to have compassion. Your person needs a hug. That's when they need cheering up or a shoulder to cry on. They need to manage the fear and telling someone everybody dies is not helpful. Even though, sure, that's an option.

Mackie: No, it's obviously not the best thing to say at that moment. It may be just how that person is trying to deal with the situation.

Macarena: Sure.

Mackie: It's a point of view, right?

[00:21:19] Understanding Core Beliefs

Mackie: It's not, I don't want to say negative, but it's what is her automatic thought?

What is her core belief or him?

Macarena: What pain have they gone through where that's the default?

Mackie: Where maybe that's the defense mechanism in order to not set themselves up for more pain. They're trying to rationalize it. Maybe the person is also looking for validation because of how they're feeling. But yes, it's not the best thing to say at that moment. But it could just be the way that person is trying to cope with a very painful situation .

It's the mind. Okay. So the mind is made to protect us from danger. And that might just be his or her mind's way of protecting itself from pain, which is losing that loved one. Not the best thing to say to the others in the group per se. But that's human's expression.

Macarena: Yeah. So I love that. I use that a lot. "Oh, interesting perspective." when someone says something that I find surprising or wouldn't think of, or don't agree with. Cool. Everybody's different. But I think it's almost a bit of an issue where everybody's always making it about themselves. And when I see this is, Oh, cause everybody's life is full of challenge. That's how we expand. That's the game. Challenge, contrast, being human, suffering, right? All that stuff is the human experience.

It's completely natural. Now, how you work it, how you look at it, the schema, how you observe it and what you decide to think about it is gonna translate to how you live your life. But I find a reoccurring theme in this situation. It's instead of "Oh, this person's hurting and they need help," then it's Oh no, let's make it about me, wanting to pull focus in a situation of crisis.

[00:23:08] The Importance of Self-Worth

Macarena: I do a lot of work with self-esteem and worth and stuff like that with myself, and my clients. And I noticed that people have to have enough foundational worthiness to be able to be present for other people. Even though they may think everybody dies, that's not what they say. Because they're understanding what's going on.

But like you said, we can't control people. And everybody has a good reason for doing what they do, thinking what they think, and saying what they say. And I don't have to understand it. Everybody's on their own ride. Everybody has their own theme park of experience. That's how I call it. It's interesting.

I find there's like a lack of foundational fortitude, where people understand that life is about challenge and everybody has to do inner work. And the more inner work, the less you're gonna reflect that or deflect that onto other people. And then you'll be able to have much nicer and much more fun relationships if we're not constantly dumping our crap onto other people.

[00:24:12] Managing Negative Thoughts

Macarena: That's why learning what your automatic thoughts, your core beliefs are, is important. Because somebody with negative core beliefs with automatic thoughts that happen, whether we like it or not, their thoughts will be like, they're negative. They're I am worthless. I am not competent.

When you have so many thoughts like that, which a lot of us have, they highlight just the negative aspect of things. So you don't see all the other possibilities because that kind of attacks before you can look at the other options. That's why the core beliefs are extremely important.

Fascinating. Number one, attention. Number two, options. What's number three?

Mackie: Number one is become aware of your thinking process. Then number two is explore new possibilities, new perspectives. And then number three is work on your behaviors, on what you say to yourself, what you do. Because those behaviors will also support a healthier way of thinking and therefore feeling.

Macarena: Makes sense, the practice of it all.

Mackie: Yeah, what we say to each other matters. The people that we are talking with matters, and then the things we do also matter.

Macarena: I think, one of the things that helps all of these is taking an inventory of the Input that's coming to us, whether inspiring or not. Let's put it that way. I don't like just to use positive, negative. Does it uplift you or not? So that could be people, conversations, media. The other day we were watching the news.

So we watched the business news in the morning and I like to read NPR and stuff like this, but every now and then, the news is on, the local news. And it's really like a horrific death toll.

Mackie: It's just bad news.

Macarena: No wonder, people are depressed. How do you hear horrific thing after horrific thing? So how we manage the input.

[00:26:17] Mindfulness and Meditation

Macarena: And then of course there's journaling, meditation. I can't say enough about both of those things. Art, drawing. How you express yourself. And then of course, working with a therapist. But these three things that you mentioned, no matter what, even with a therapist, these are best practices that we should all be doing.

Mackie: Yeah, so your environment, we are a product of our environment. Whatever we're surrounding ourselves with, that will make a difference in how we perceive. If you're surrounding yourself with people that are positive, you eventually start thinking more positively. If you are surrounding yourself with things or people that are negative, that's how you're going to start seeing the world. And everything else around you, negative. And everyone else around you, negative.

So it is important to surround yourself with people and be in environments that are going to bring you a better outlook. When I say happy, I don't mean Oh, everybody's laughing all the time and, cheery and everything is wonderful, but more peaceful, life, in harmony. And then you mentioned meditation. Some people find it hard to find the time to meditate. That would be me because like I said, that there's too many things going on. But you can, mindfully do things that do not require a whole 20 minutes or even 10 minutes sometimes of meditation that you may not have the time to do.

But it's actually really good for you because it brings you to the present moment. And most of the time, we are in the past or we are in the future. And so if we're in the past, we're remembering things that maybe bring us sadness or make us angry. And if we're in the future, we are usually feeling anxious because it's stuff that hasn't happened yet.

When we feel afraid, it's because something happens, it's happening right there. And then when we feel anxious, it's about stuff that hasn't happened yet. But when you're meditating or being mindful, you're actually just connecting to the present moment to now. And if you can do that, let's say you're washing dishes and you just pay attention to how you're grabbing the soap and what the soap feels like and how you're applying it to a dish and what the dish feels like and how the water is falling on the dish and rinsing off the soap and that's a mindful moment.

That's a form of being contacting the present. You're never gonna escape all your thoughts because they happen automatically. But it gives you a moment of detachment. Diffusion is a better word, from maybe thoughts that are making you sad or angry or anxious.

[00:28:56] The Power of Breathing

Mackie: And breathing.

Breathing is so important. You don't have to breathe for a long time, but maybe just 10 mindful breaths. And what I mean by that is feel the air as it's coming in, feel your lungs or your belly button, moving with the air and feel the air leaving your body. And if you do that, at least 10 times, that's it. It's not going to take you a very long time. You don't have to do it super deep breaths. You may get dizzy if you do that. But just feeling the air in, feeling it coming out. That will also bring you to a mindful moment and will help you with these automatic thoughts that sometimes can take us to negatively emotional places.

Macarena: I love what you're saying. And it sounds like invoking the senses is a great way to be present. What am I hearing or what am I smelling? That could go either really good or really bad, so be careful with that one. But what am I senses telling me? Being really present.

And I had to work a lot on this growing up. Because I was so about my brain and all of that stuff that I was so completely detached. They figured out exercise is necessary for your brain and it allows us to be present. And what I've learned is it doesn't have to take a lot of time.

Even the meditation, 30 seconds is better than none. If you can go for longer, fantastic. But there's nothing wrong with doing a minute of breathing. And I think a misconception people have about meditation, it's not about stopping thoughts. That's never going to happen. What it is is usually we're so directed. I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do this.

So even daydreaming is a positive practice. Just allowing your brain to wander around. And that's why sometimes people use mantras. It could be your name. It could be the word love. It could be the word options. Whatever you want to work on. As a thought comes in, Oh, I forgot to Take out the laundry.

Options, possibilities, whatever your word is.

[00:30:56] Practical Mindfulness Tips

Mackie: Yeah, and we were talking about paying attention to your thoughts. What are your automatic thoughts? What are they telling you? What are they thinking about? What are they saying? Like you said, you can't get rid of your thoughts. This whole thing of clearing your mind, it's not gonna happen. But you can look at your thoughts.

Okay. Oh, I'm thinking about that. Oh, okay. There again, I'm thinking about that and it's negative. You don't have to judge your thoughts. You can be curious. Look at them with curiosity and by noticing, you can start narrowing down what are your core beliefs.

Are they negative? Are you seeing everything in a way that it's going to just cost you pain? Or are you looking at things with more of an open mind? And meditation, as we were saying, or mindfulness, you gave some good examples like exercising, breathing. We talked about like washing dishes.

You can do walking. If you're going from your office to your car. You can just focus on paying attention to how your foot touches the floor with every step. By doing that, you are being mindful. Like you can apply it throughout your entire day. And if you can start every morning or every afternoon, maybe twice a day, if you can do that just for a minute, with whatever you're doing, you can start becoming a little bit more diffused from the thoughts and more aware of what your mind is actually thinking about.

Macarena: And sometimes I think we need to work something out. So if something keeps coming to my mind, usually it's a clue. Like I need to talk this out with somebody, a good friend or a therapist. Or I like to journal. I like to write it out and let it out of my system. And I'm going to list a bunch of resources I've been jotting down as we've been talking.

There's a journaling technique to release trauma, like really traumatic things. It's from the Huberman Lab podcast. That's how I learned about it. It's a really good technique.

Here are some resources. The book, The Four Agreements.

Do you remember this book? Have you read it?

Mackie: Yes, I have. It's a wonderful book.

It's be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. The third is don't make assumptions. And the fourth is always do your best.

Macarena: What I love about this book is that reading it helps you reprogram all of those things, which is wonderful. And the second book of that series is the Mastery of Love is really great. And speaking of relationships, I was also thinking of Finding the Love You Want, the guide for couples.

This book is great. And it's not just for couples because it talks about how we attract the people that are going to help us heal our wounds of our caretakers. So by understanding that and processing it, it allows us to have better relationships. So I highly recommend it. Right now, I'm reading a wonderful book called Worthy It's all about how to regain self-worth. To really look at where it's lacking. And what I love about that book is she explains the difference between like self-worth and confidence. So confidence and self-esteem can be outwardly expressions. You can have a lot of confidence when it comes to sports, but not about the way you look, externally. Whereas worthiness is a foundation. It comes from the inside. "I deserve. I'm enough." All of those things that allow us to be much more effective humans.

Mackie: And those are core beliefs. "I'm enough. I'm worth. I deserve." Negative core beliefs is "I am not enough. I'm worthless." Those are the core beliefs that tremendously affect how we see everything and everyone. And if you have positive core beliefs, it makes a difference and you are more optimistic and you do see all the possibilities.

Macarena: For people who want professional help with this, how do they find it?

Mackie: I would look for a cognitive behavior therapist. Also therapists that work with acceptance. Acceptance does not mean "oh, we think that unless things are perfect, then we can't be at peace." Sometimes we're in harmony or feel happy.

[00:35:04] Challenging Core Beliefs

Mackie: And it's important to know that sometimes things may not be ideal. Let's say your core belief, how you see the world, how you see yourself and say is one of , "I don't deserve, I'm not deserving." And by becoming aware of your thoughts, by really like when you're feeling something like taking a look what you thought at that moment, what you felt, what happened after, what did you do after? What did you say after? Then you can become aware of what your core beliefs are. And then you can actually start exploring different explanations, how things happened. And then by that you can start changing your core beliefs. So then you can start changing your actions, and that will in itself help change those negative core beliefs. So is it improving? Is it updating? Is it changing? Is it challenging?

Macarena: It's three steps to challenging your schemas, which are limiting core beliefs. I like that.

Mackie: Yeah, because that's what it does. If truly, their core belief is that they are not worthy, it's disempowering.

[00:36:09] Coping with Trauma

Macarena: So let's apply this to something practical. I have been in several car accidents. So a challenge I have is I have a terrible time being a passenger in a car and sitting in the front seat. Because I've had several, car accidents where some of them were more painful than others and I survived. So it's not a bad thing. And I've done a lot of work.

I've done EMDR for this. I've done lots of things to work on this. And when I'm driving, I'm perfectly fine.

So I know it triggers some kind of control freakness in me. Yet passenger seat, if we get too close to the car in front of me, it's like a panic heart attack. And the funny part is when I was in a really dangerous car accident where we flipped the car in the highway, I knew we were going to be okay. So during that moment, I wasn't terrified at all, but now, oh my God, it's like, I'm a bit traumatized. So I need to sit in the back because I can't watch. It just freaks me out.

Mackie: Your brain is trying to save you from danger. That's what it thinks it's doing. When that happens, when you're sitting in the driver's seat, you're feeling tensed, first thing is to acknowledge that tension, right?

Okay, you're feeling tense what's the situation? What's your core belief there? What's your automatic thought? Is it that you're gonna crash? Okay, I'm in danger, right? And now from there, you can explore it a little bit more, and look at the facts. Okay, you're in the car, you have crashed in the past, does it mean there's going to be an accident right now? Not necessarily. Who's driving? Is the person a bad driver? Are they a good driver? Have they gone into accidents before or lately? What are the real chances that something is going to happen? Could it be? Yes. But could one of the possibilities be that you're going to make it home safe?

Macarena: Yes.

Mackie: Right? And then contact your present moment. Be mindful in that moment. And then, hopefully you make it safe.

That's really it. Your schema about that has now been one of you're in danger. And that's what you have to work at. And if you are with a bad driver, then it's most likely a reality. "Oh, my God, I need to get out of this car." But if you're with a good driver, you're driving in a place that is not necessarily, where people are driving like crazy, explore the other.

Macarena: A lot of people drive like crazy.

Mackie: Yes, that is accurate. There's going to be an accident.

Macarena: It's tricky. The possibilities thing could work against me because if infinite possibilities, crashing and dying is definitely one of them. But I don't know.

I don't think I'm so much afraid of death. I think I'm more afraid of pain.

Mackie: Yes, which is a possibility. But there is also a possibility that you get home without any problems. Nothing's going to happen. So explore that possibility.

Macarena: I will definitely do this. What I do right now, which is basically is I can't look. I can't look because if I'm looking out at the windshield, as a passenger and I focus on the car in front of me, it's not good. So what I do is like I have to look away.

Mackie: That is reinforcing your anxiety.

Macarena: Great.

Mackie: Because the coping mechanism is to avoid.

Macarena: Not solving it. It's a bandaid. Which is why we're having this conversation.

Mackie: It's avoiding it, right? Instead of actually just looking at it and being factual about it. And exploring all the other alternative explanations. But if you look away, you're actually reinforcing that anxiety.

Macarena: Wow. I thought I was reinforcing it by hyper focusing on the car in front of us.

Mackie: No.

A lot of the times we avoid things and we think that will help us, but it doesn't. It might for a little bit in the short term. But in the long term, it just keeps it going.

Macarena: Well, that would explain why this is ongoing.

Mackie: Yes. And we should talk about someday about coping skills.

Macarena: Yes.

Mackie: Because a lot of the times we think that we're trying something better, but we don't realize that we're reinforcing and maintaining something that we want to not have anymore or have less of.

Macarena: Now that I think about me as a passenger,

I'm not doing my usual practices of like breathe, let go, let God. Yeah. Yeah. I've been fine in every other moment. I don't think about my car accidents. I just think about the trauma from the car accidents.

Mackie: Right.

Macarena: It's which is not helping.

Mackie: That's your mind is going reliving that moment thinking that it's helping you to avoid another accident. But the fact is that thinking about that is not going to avoid anything. It just gonna bring you more stress and that's the core belief that you're having there that moment, which is I'm in danger.

Macarena: Yeah. So any closing.

[00:40:49] Closing Thoughts and Resources

Mackie: I want to say thank you so much for having me here with you. It's been a pleasure talking about all of this because our schemas affects how we feel on a daily basis.

And so I think we have to all become a little bit more aware. And that way, feel better at the end of the day. Have a life that we can look back on and feel content with. Because at the end of the day, our experience is based on our perspective.

If we can have a better perspective on things, we will end up having a better experience in the life that we live.

Macarena: Wow. Thank you so much. I've learned so much about schemas and their ability to keep us not present or allow us to be present. So thank you for this. This has been illuminating and I cannot wait to talk to you next time. We've got the topic, coping. Yeah, I would love to get into that with you. So thank you so much, Mackie Jones.

I appreciate you taking the time and having this lovely, illuminating conversation.

Mackie: And thank you for having this podcast to talk about things that are so vital to our life and inspirational. And thank you for always being very inspirational. As you said, we are the directors of our own life that has always stayed with me. And I believe it.

Macarena: Thank you.

Sponsor: I want to thank our sponsors, Spark Social Press, my publisher, for supporting our show and their commitment to spreading joy and empowerment through their magical books. Spark Social Press believes in the power of mindset and the magic of self expression. Our enchanting children's book series, The Grateful Giraffes, teaches little ones the importance of gratitude and positive thinking by expressing themselves thoughtfully and tenderly, and with illustrations of their delightful adventures and heartwarming lessons.

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Outro: Wow. What a journey we've been on together. I hope this episode has left you feeling inspired, empowered, and ready to embrace the magic in your life. I'd love to hear about your experiences and insights. Please tag me on social media using the hashtag magical mindset podcast, or leave me a DM to share your wins, challenges, and aha moments.

Let's keep the conversation and the magic flowing beyond this episode. Thank you so much for tuning in and for being a part of this magical community. Until next time, keep shining your light and embracing the wonder of each day. You've got this!